down, not up. lori: the senate approved a house plan to approve the debt ceiling and hold off on congressional pay if they don't get a budget deal for the next ten years. you say this is more of a risk and even the fiscal cliff was. >> oh, yes. the debt ceiling is a potentially large fiscal contraction like the fiscal cliff was. even bigger, actually, if you do the math. debt ceiling is you cannot borrow, so you have to balance the budget tomorrow. in addition to that, there was the kind of not very real threat that we might default on the national debt or postpone payments, so you're playing with a combination of a big fiscal contraction and the possibility of triggering a financial crisis also. lori: i want to ask you about your book. after the music stopped, but about the financial crisis, to a dozen 7-8. looking back, said always 2020, what were the best actions taken by the federal government and the worst? >> at think there were three. in net you a tie for first? >> you know how tv works. >> one was tart. very unpopular, but effective and turn a profit for the taxpayer.